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THE SCIENCE OF SELF-REALIZATION
cycle of birth and death in different forms of life and go back home, back to Godhead.
Mr. Faill:  Do you think transcendental meditation is helping people?
Śrīla Prabhupāda:  They do not know what real meditation is. Their meditation is simply a farce—another cheating process by the so-called swamis and yogis. You're asking me if meditation is helping people, but do you know what meditation is?
Mr. Faill:  A stilling of the mind—trying to sit in the center without swinging either way.
Śrīla Prabhupāda:  And what is the center?
Mr. Faill:  I don't know.
Śrīla Prabhupāda:  So everyone is talking very much about meditation, but no one knows what meditation actually is. These bluffers use the word "meditation," but they do not know the proper subject for meditation. They're simply talking bogus propaganda.
Mr. Faill:  Isn't meditation valuable just to get people thinking right?
Śrīla Prabhupāda:  No. Real meditation means to achieve a state in which the mind is saturated with God consciousness. But if you do not know what God is, how can you meditate? Besides, in this age people's minds are so agitated that they cannot concentrate. I have seen this so-called meditation; they are simply sleeping and snoring. Unfortunately, in the name of God consciousness or "self-realization," many bluffers are presenting nonstandard methods of meditation without referring to the authorized books of Vedic knowledge. They are simply practicing another type of exploitation.
Mr. Faill:  What about some of the other teachers, like Ouspensky and Gurdjieff? In the past they brought to the West a message similar to yours.
Śrīla Prabhupāda:  We would have to study the particulars of their teachings to know whether they meet the Vedic standard. God consciousness is a science, just like medical science or any other science. It cannot be different because it is spoken by different men. Two plus two equals four everywhere, never five, or three. That is science.
Mr. Faill:  Do you feel that others may have possibly taught the genuine method of God consciousness?
Śrīla Prabhupāda:  Unless I study their teachings in detail, it would be very difficult to say. There are so many bluffers.
Mr. Faill:  Just doing it for money.
Śrīla Prabhupāda:  That's all. They have no standard method. Therefore