Finding the Cure for Today's Social Ills
207
or the government or whatever you say. This surrender must be there.
Prof. Kotovsky:  The only difficulty is that we cannot half surrender to a government or a king. The principal difference is of surrender to a king, to a person, or to the society.
Śrila Prabhupāda:  No, that is only a change of color. But the principle of surrender is there. Whether you surrender to monarchy, democracy, aristocracy, or dictatorship, you have to surrender; that is a fact. Without surrender there is no life. It is not possible. So we are educating people to surrender to the Supreme, wherefrom you get all protection, just as Krṣṇa says ( sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇam vraja ). No one can say, “No, I am not surrendered to anyone.” Not a single person. The difference is  where  he surrenders. The ultimate surrendering object is Krṣṇa. Therefore in the  Bhagavad-gītā  [7.19] Krṣṇa says,  bahūnām jan-manām ante jñānavān mām prapadyate : “After surrendering to so many things birth after birth, when one is factually wise he surrenders unto Me.”  Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ : “Such a  mahātmā  is very rare.”
Prof. Kotovsky:  But at the same time it seems to me that surrender is to be accompanied by revolt. The history of mankind has proved that mankind has developed only by revolt against some kind of surrender. In the medieval age there was the French Revolution. It was revolt against surrender. But this revolution itself was surrender to the rank and file of the people. You are agreed?
Śrila Prabhupāda:  Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky:  So it is not enough to come to a full stop. Surrender is to be accompanied with revolt against some and surrender to other people.
Śrila Prabhupāda:  But the surrender will be fully stopped when it is surrender to Krṣṇa.
Prof. Kotovsky:  Ah, ah.
Śrila Prabhupāda:  That is full stop—no more surrender. Any other surrender you have to change by revolution. But when you come to Krṣṇa, then it is sufficient. You are satisfied. I’ll give you an example: a child is crying, and people move him from one lap to another. Oh, he does not stop. But as soon as the baby comes to the lap of his mother . . .
Prof. Kotovsky:  It stops.
Śrila Prabhupāda:  Yes, full satisfaction. So this surrender, these changes, will go on in different categories. But the sum total of all this surrender is surrender to  māyā . Therefore, in the  Bhagavad-gītā  it is said that this surrender, neglecting Krṣṇa, is all  māyā . Either you surrender to