Finding the Cure for Today’s Social Ills 197
the European scholars trace back history five thousand years? Can they
go back forty million years? We have evidence that this varndsrama
system has been current at least five thousand years. The varndsrama
system is also mentioned in the Visnu Purana [3.8.9]. Varndsramdcara-
vata purusena parah puman. That is stated in the Visnu Purana. Var-
nasrama-dharma is not a phenomenon of a historical period calculated in
the modern age. It is natural. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam the comparison
is given that just as in the body there are four divisions—the brain divi-
sion, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division—so by
nature’s way these four divisions are existing in the social body. There
exist a class of men who are considered the brain, a class of men who are
considered the arms of the state, a class of men who are called the pro-
ductive class, and so on. There is no need of tracing history; it is naturally
existing from the day of creation.

Prof. Kotovsky: You have said that in any society there are four divi-
sions, but they are not so easy to distinguish. For instance, one can group
together different social classes and professional groups into four divi-
sions in any society; there is no difficulty. The only difficulty is, for in-
stance, in the socialistic society—in our country and other socialist
societies—how you can distinguish the productive group from the
workers.

Srila Prabhupada: For example, we belong to the intellectual class of
men. This is a division. ; .
Prof. Kotovsky: Intelligent class, brahmanas. And you can also put
together all the intelligentsia in that department.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: And then the administrative class.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: But who are the vaisyas and sddras? That is the dif-
ficulty. Because all others are workers—factory workers, collective farm
workers, and so on. So from this point of view there is a great distinction,
in my opinion, between socialist society and all societies preceeding
socialism because in modern Western society you can group all social and
professional classes in these particular class divisions— brahmanas,
ksatriyas, vaiSyas, and Stdras: intellectuals, productive class, owners of
the productive system (factory owners, for instance), and menial
workers. But here you have no vaisyas because you have administrative
staffs in factories, and you can call them ksatriyas, and then there are the
Sudras, the workers themselves, but no intermediate class.

Srila Prabhupada: That is stated. Kalau stdra-sambhavah. In this age
