Finding the Cure for Today’s Social Ills 207

or the government or whatever you say. This surrender must be there.
Prof. Kotovsky: The only difficulty is that we cannot half surrender to a
government or a king. The principal difference is of surrender to a king,
to a person, or to the society. ;

Srila Prabhupada: No, that is only a change of color. But the principle of
surrender is there. Whether you surrender to monarchy, democracy,
aristocracy, or dictatorship, you have to surrender; that is a fact. Without
surrender there is no life. It is not possible. So we are educating people to
surrender to the Supreme, wherefrom you get all protection, just as
Krsna says (sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam Saranam vraja). No one
can say, ‘‘No, I am not surrendered to anyone.”’ Not a single person. The
difference is where he surrenders. The ultimate surrendering object is
Krsna. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gitd [7.19] Krsna says, bahtinadm jan-
manam ante jidnavan mam prapadyate: ‘‘ After surrendering to so many
things birth after birth, when one is factually wise he surrenders unto
Me.”” Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah: ‘‘Such a mahatmd is
very rare.”’

Prof. Kotovsky: But at the same time it seems to me that surrender is to
be accompanied by revolt. The history of mankind has proved that
mankind has developed only by revolt against some kind of surrender. In
the medieval age there was the French Revolution. It was revolt against
surrender. But this revolution itself was surrender to the rank and file of
the people. You are agreed?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: So it is not enough to come to a full stop. Surrender is to
be accompanied with revolt against some and surrender to other people.
Srila Prabhupada: But the surrender will be fully stopped when it is sur-
render to Krsna.

Prof. Kotovsky: Ah, ah.

Srila Prabhupada: That is full stop—no more surrender. Any other sur-
render you have to change by revolution. But when you come to Krsna,
then it is sufficient. You are satisfied. I'll give you an example: a child is
crying, and people move him from one lap to another. Oh, he does not
stop. But as soon as the baby comes to the lap of his mother...

Prof. Kotovsky: It stops.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, full satisfaction. So this surrender, these
changes, will go on in different categories. But the sum total of all this
surrender is surrender to mayd. Therefore, in the Bhagavaa-gita it is said
that this surrender, neglecting Krsna, is all maya. Either you surrender to
